When I set about writing this piece I imagined it was going to deal only with our current group of goalies and how blessed we are to have – transfer window and budgetary issues permitting – two top class goalkeepers, following an era when that has not always been the case.
But for me, it never takes long when thinking about Arsenal keepers before I’m back in the days of a great hero of mine, Bob Wilson, and I make no apology whatsoever for using the opportunity to post a picture of the great man holding the tangible products of our 1971 League and Cup Double triumph.
Bob was the first Arsenal keeper I knew and as far as my not infallible memory goes, he had it all. The flying leap, the coming and gathering of a cross, the diving head first at the feet of an onrushing centre forward, and even trudging from the Highbury pitch in a blizzard-abandoned match, when he finally realised that all the other players had already gone off !
Bob, of course, served the club as goalkeeper coach after his playing days, his most famous and best charge being David Seaman – whom Arsene Wenger had the great fortune to inherit as his number one – reflecting Bob’s influence as an agile, commanding and unerringly calm keeper. Seaman and Wenger together won two Premier Leagues and three FA Cups.
One skill which Bob had that has been lost in so many modern keepers, was the ability to catch the ball – a trait so refreshingly shared by Emiliano Martinez. This would seem to be the minimum requirement for a top level goalkeeper, but how many now prefer to punch or parry than catch and hold. Deciding when to come off his line was another area where he excelled and that brings me to the first point of, let’s say, contrast with many of our recent custodians.
I read a comment, a long time ago now, in one of journalist and Arsenal fan Amy Lawrence’s articles, in which she said she had once seen an international fixture between Northern Ireland and Russia. The Irish keeper was Gerry Peyton who was clearly a very good shot stopper, but whose weakness seemed to be decision making and coming off his line.
Peyton, of course, became the Arsenal goalkeeping coach in 2003 – when Bob Wilson retired from the position and left along with David Seaman – and worked at the club for 15 years. He left the club in 2018 along with several other members of the backroom staff, in changes which coincided with Arsene Wenger’s retirement.
During his time at the club he worked with Manuel Almunia and Lukasz Fabianski, Wojcech Szczesny, Vito Mannone, David Ospina and Emi Martinez. The characteristics Amy Lawrence mentioned were a feature of all of those keepers with the very notable exception of Martinez.
Remember, for example, the first Barcelona game in the Champions League at The Emirates. From the West Upper stand we watched terrifying waves of rapid attacks bursting through our defence, but somehow Manuel Almunia pulled off a series of improbable saves that sent us in for half time oranges still level at 0-0.
Hopes were high at the restart that we could actually pull this thing off. Those high hopes were very swiftly dashed to pieces when our hero of the first half became the villain of the second, as he twice left defenders with nowhere to go by rushing bizarrely out of his goal.
Lukasz Fabianski, another really likeable man and great shot stopper, eventually suffered abuse and ridicule because of the rash excursions off his line and some quite shocking misunderstandings with his defence. He always gave the impression that, despite obvious agility and quick reflexes, he just didn’t have the calmness or mental strength necessary to handle the pressures of playing at such a big club – something that has been borne out by his relative personal successes at Swindon and West Ham.
When Gerry Peyton left in 2018, the possibly surprisingly named, for an English ex-goalkeeper, Salvatore Bibbo took over, and he was joined in December 2019 by Brentford goalkeeping coach Inaki Cana Pavon – a man Mikel Arteta knows from their playing days at Barcelona. He set about improving the physical fitness of the keepers which, in turn, leads to better mental strength and concentration.
Someone who does appear to possess great mental strength is Emiliano Martinez and it’s a quality he has developed since childhood. He comes from a genuinely poor family in Argentina and can remember times when “[he and his] brother Alejandro could eat, but not [his] parents – there simply wasn’t enough money to go round.” He recalls seeing his father in tears because he couldn’t pay the bills.
As a junior Emi played for Independiente in Buenos Aires, which is 400km from his home town of Mar del Plata. He would only see his family twice a month, when he travelled to them, because they couldn’t afford the petrol to drive to him. At 16 years of age there was another tough decision to make following his trial with The Arsenal. He was ‘scared’ coming to England for his trial and decided “there was no way I was going to leave my family.” When he got the acceptance call a week after his trial, he said “I saw my brother and parents crying, saying “please don’t go.” I had to be brave at the time, because I said “yes” for them. Now I don’t regret anything. I have got a wife and a kid here and I have a future in London.” And his family can now certainly pay the bills!
The early settling in period was hard. Apparently there was little assistance adjusting to his new environment and there was a new language to learn. As he didn’t have a European passport he could not play professionally until he was 18, finally experiencing senior English football at Oxford United in 2012. There were further loan spells at Sheffield Wednesday, Rotherham, Wolves, Getafe and Reading, which he vowed would be his last. He is now Arsenal’s longest-serving player, and after ten years in the background has, fittingly for a keeper, certainly grabbed his opportunity with both hands (every possible pun absolutely intended).
Martinez played as a centre forward as a child which probably explains why he appears so comfortable playing out in some pretty tight situations. However, he had become such a good goalkeeper by the age of 16, that he was playing for the Argentina U17s and that’s where he was spotted by an Arsenal scout. It was ten years ago when Independiente were happy to agree on a £1.1million fee to transfer their keeper to the Arsenal.
Martinez’ teammate and rival for the first team spot is, of course, Bernd Leno.
Leno was born in Bietigheim-Bissingen in Germany in 1992 and, like Martinez, is 28 years old. From the age of 6 (yes, 6!) in 1998 to 11 in 2003, he played for SV Germania Bietigheim, and so the proximity to home of his earliest club would suggest a somewhat more comfortable childhood than that of Martinez.
In 2003 he joined VfB Stuttgart Youth until 2009 when he moved up to the VfB Stuttgart II Senior side at 17 years of age. 2011 saw him transfer to Bayer Leverkusen, where he spent 7 years and made 233 appearances for the Bundesliga team, until moving to the Arsenal in 2018.
Since 2008 he has represented Germany at U17, U18, U19 and U21 level, and since October 2015 has made 6 appearances for the senior Germany side.
Like Martinez, Leno is very comfortable playing out from the back, even though it didn’t always necessarily appear so behind Unai Emery’s haphazard (lack of) defensive structure. Before his unfortunate knee injury he had been in great form, made many brilliant saves and was consistently among our best performers.
Now, in the middle of the current transfer window and apparently strapped for cash, Arsenal will seemingly have to raise money to assist any spending. Any position boasting two elite performers will have to be considered a potential source of funds by selling one. It is so good to see two proper goalkeepers at the club, I hate to think of either of them being allowed to leave. But this is not a perfect world – just in case that had escaped anyone’s notice! – and realistically both are too good to want to play second fiddle.
I have to say my personal choice would be to keep Martinez, if push came to shove. He seems a more imposing physical presence but I was surprised to find that there is only one inch between them in height – Leno is 1.90 metres, or 6’ 3” in old money, while Martinez is 1.93 metres, or 6’ 4”. However, Leno weighs in at 79kg or 12st 6lb, while Martinez is significantly heavier at 88kg or 13st 12lb – hence that physical impression.
I’m sure many will disagree but I think Martinez is the best all round keeper I’ve seen for a long time. Extremely confident to play Arteta’s way, and he produced two more superb one-on-one stops in last weekend’s Community Shield victory over Liverpool. He has served 10 years in the club’s employ now and it seems to mean a huge amount to him.
I really hope he stays. For me, he’s definitely a keeper (yes, ok 🙄).
Goonerholics Forever Ropey League Fantasy Football
We are happy to announce the Holics Ropey League will continue in the Fantasy League for the 2020/21 season. All Gooners are most welcome to join the fun. Please post a comment requesting details and we will send you the code by the e-mail required in your comment’s author information.
Well handled, Trev. You didn’t drop the ball there.
I’ll get my coat…
SScruz from the previous drinks: Difficult comparison to make given how the team switched between a back three and four and the changing cast of characters particularly at left CB. However you mix’n’match them, here’s evidence that Saliba and Gabriel will be a massive upgrade:
Tackle success ( %) Fouls
Bellerin 65 15
Tierney 80 8
Sokratis 64 19
Holding 50 4
Mustafi 59 14
Chambers 38 18
David Luiz 57 30
Kolasinac 55 20
Mari 50 2
Cedric Soares 60 16
(Cedric’s stats includes Southampton games)
Excellent job Trev. I would also give an honourable mention to John Lukic, our goalie for much of the 80s, including that famous night at Anfield where he kept a vital clean sheet. He took over from Pat Jennings of course, who along with Sol Campbell made successful transitions from the smelly end of the Seven Sisters road.
I didn’t mention Pat Jennings on purpose because he did come from the smelly end of the Seven Sisters Road, has always regarded himself as a Tottenham man and did have – possibly still has – areas of their stadium named after him.
Just my choice but I took our two present keepers and the two greatest of our past and the common features between them.
Great stuff, Trev. But what of Mad Jens?
I know what you mean Trev but he did play over 230 times for us over 8 seasons after Spurs discarded him because he was “finished”. I have fond memories of him in the 70s, especially his trade mark one handed catch from corners.
Trev,
This is both hugely enjoyable and a great description of our keepers . I know Bob Wilson quite well and over the years have often discussed our goalkeepers with him . He was very supportive of most of them ( I can remember a spirited defence of ‘ Flappy ‘ after he cost us a CL last 16 game in Porto) . I’ve also had the pleasure of meeting Pat a couple of times and he is a quite delightful fellow. Bob was very concerned about coaching Pat but he said he had no ego, was very anxious to learn and worked really hard at his game late in his career. He also said he had a unique style !
Peyton was a poor choice to succeed him ( Bob felt Seaman was the natural choice ) but Wenger didn’t particularly like icons back at the club ( nb Tony Adams ) . Those who did work under him were there when he arrived and he was also extremely loyal to his staff. Whereas Ferguson freshened his coaching staff Arsene stuck with the same characters for years ( Primorac, Rice ) and it showed .
I agree totally about Emi , he is definitely a more complete keeper than Leno who is poor on crosses . I think we need two top keepers but it’s hard to keep them both happy . Top stuff Trev
An excellent and thought provoking piece Trev. I never saw Willo in the flesh but I do remember his brave dives at the feet of onrushing centre forwards. Seaman was a worthy successor and spread calm across the defence. The quality of our goalkeeping crashed when Jens retired. I didn’t know about Peyton’s own goalkeeping style but that deficit would not enhance his ability as a coach and may explain the failings of a generation of Arsenal keepers. I remember that when he signed for us, Cech was keen to have us employ his familiar coach from Chavski and his disappointment when it didn’t transpire. That may be a further reflection on the Arsenal set-up.
We are currently blessed with two excellent keepers. I can’t see that lasting more than a season and possibly only 6 months. However our need to strengthen the midfield may force an earlier decision. I agree with your preference for Martinez for the reasons you identify. He must now demonstrate that he can consistently maintain the high standard he has set. I expect he will.
Thanks Trev, a thought provoking
piece. Peyton was a great shot-
stopper and a keeper I always
rated but we had the best in the
world at that time so…..
He certainly didn’t work as a coach
for Woj, Flappy or Almunia though
two of them have done well since
and I remember the video where
Woj and Flappy were pretty scathing
on his coaching skills.
Loved Bob Wilson and Rimmer after
him much more than Pat, Wood and
Lukic though that might have been
my age rather than a fair appraisal of
their keeper skills.
I’m still in the Bernd camp regarding
our current custodians but it is close.
Emi is I agree better on crosses but
to me Leno is slightly more agile –
and I think Leno has been good
consistently for longer so I’d go with
him for now. It’ll all come out in the
wash this season as I don’t expect
whoever’s not playing to stay
beyond the end of the 20/21 season.
It’s good while it lasts!
Interesting stats @2 Ned.
KT has mostly played under MA so I
wonder if that’s why his numbers
are so much better.
Or the rest of them are just poor
at tackling?
Would you happen to know an average
for all PL defenders?
Excellent piece, Trev. I thoroughly enjoyed it.
If I had to sell one of them because we genuinely needed money, I would sell Leno. Solely because he is more likely to generate more £. If I simply had to sell the one I thought was the inferior “keeper, I would sell Emu, there’s a reason Leno is more likely to generate more cash in the transfer market.
A lot of people talk about Emi been better at crosses but I’m afraid they fail to see how much Leno has improved in that aspect over the last 1 year. Additionally, they are judging Leno based on his performances in Emery’s defence. None of our defenders looked calm under Emery. My eye test tells me that Emi doesn’t actually claim more crosses than Leno, he just attempts fewer crosses and has mostly played behind a calm defence. I wonder if stats are recorded for crosses “keepers attempt and all that.
Another reason I would keep Emi is that he has been here for so long and supposedly is more of an Arsenal man/fan but then that counts for nothing these days. We are calling players who are loyal to us parasites and have no patience for players who suffer career-threatening injuries in our colours so I suppose it makes no difference.
ALL,
Just to say we have added a
paragraph at the end of Trev’s
golden goalie words to
invite any who’d like to join
the HolicsRopeyLeague for some
harmless but competitive fun!
And just to add one more thing
– great post Cent.
Cent
Please don’t confuse what Ozil is demonstrating with loyalty. It is pure self-interest. He has missed innumerable games with very minor ‘problems ‘ and his level of on field and off- field commitment is highly dubious. He has managed to get a ridiculously inflated contract and since that time the quality of his performances have dipped so that three different coaches ,including Arteta who is an old team-mate of his won’t entertain him in the side .
Loyalty is what Martinez has demonstrated, it is what David O’Leary demonstrated as a player repeatedly turning down more lucrative moves to stay with the club he lived, it is what Adams and McLintock demonstrated.
Ozil shames their name and his refusal to move is based purely on personal convenience . To not wish to ply your trade as a footballer while you are physically able to do so is an indictment of the man and his professional pride While his injured teammates supported the team at Wembley he went on holiday to Turkey . I wonder if he even watched the match
The most important thing for me that Martinez has over Leno is presence. And that the ball sticks to his hands like they’re magnetic (or whatever the equivalent of magnets are for a football 🙂 )
There’s no sense of flappiness about Martinez but there can be at times about Leno, as good as he has been.
I’d sell Leno, then if it turns out to be a mistake we can always blame Arteta 😉
Trev. Top effort. What a great read! And thoroughly researched. You had me at a photo of Safe Hands with his ponytail.
I agree that I’d keep Emi above Leno. Yet if we sold Leno he would have nothing but my praise for his character and abilities as a player. For the last fifteen years he would have made our team considerably better. And when we finally get him another keeper emerges who I think will prove to be the better of the two. That is very Arsenal.
TTG @ 14. Spot on. Every word.
Cent. It’s always a pleasure to see you!
Who has had a career threatening injury and received no patience?
I can think of far too many occasions when we faced that sort of situation, and the charge leveled at us was usually that we had too much patience and were not ruthless enough. I think we do a good job supporting those who have been injured in our shirt, so i am wondering who you think has been left by the wayside?
I assumed Hector is the injured player
and Ozil is the parasite.
There is some truth in both.
Though MA has been patient with
Hector many supporters haven’t.
Ozil signed the contract we offered
him.
Excellent piece, Trev. A thoroughly enjoyable read to boot.
On the choice of feature keepers I have but two words:
Jack Kelsey
I’m not old enough to have seen him play myself, and truth to tell I can barely remember more than the names of most of the players I have seen, but those a generation older than I spoke of Kelsey in the highest possible terms. I am particularly fond of one story about him that I always repeat when the discussion rolls around. I won’t this time :-).
COYG
Congrats to Xhaka on being
made captain of Switzerland
in place of the retiring Lichtsteiner
A proper Gob Stopper that one, Trev. I’m with you and several others. We have two of the best goalies in the world. I hope we keep them both. But if push comes to shove, of the two, Martinez is the keeper for me.
So Bob Wilson and his charity came to our golf club for a legends Arsenal v Tottenham golf game. (Fabulous turn out by both teams, some real legends, Brady my particular favourite). Bob was in the last group. Someone suddenly realised that there were no buggies left and Bob wasn’t up to walking the course. What to do?
No problem, an old tractor belching smoke emerged from a shed and off for 18 holes it went with Bob at the wheel. Save of the day. 🙂
Please send me the Fantasy Footy code.
Do you recall Rhys Wimont as our goalie back in the 80’s? I vividly remember how he had two great feet. He would place kick right footed and drop kick left footed. I hope that i didn’t dream that one.
BtM,
Will do!
Thanks all for the interest and excellent comments.
I’m glad some found it enjoyable – that was always the intention and should hopefully be what football is about.
I also realise that it was far from an encyclopaedic piece – that would have been impossible in the time available. I just wanted to find a link between our current great keepers and what most of us recognise as good solid goalkeeping technique.
Many good keepers not included but one old favourite had to be.
OM@10: To answer your question in a roundabout way: The 20 players who put in the most defensive tackles in Premiership games last season won 58% of them, and the 20 who won the most tackles (mostly the same 20 for the obvious reasons) won 60% of them. The range in both sets was from a low of 52% to a high of 74%.
By team, the average defensive tackles won rate in the Premiership last season was 59% with 227 fouls conceded. The range ran from Watford at 56% (221 fouls) to Burnley at 63% (227 fouls). Our number was 58% (251 fouls), which put us in 14th place (and eighth for fouls).
In short, our defence was, as we know, below average across last season.
Cent@11: There are some stats for keepers claiming high balls in league games, although they are raw numbers. Thus, they don’t take account of the volume or quality of the crosses coming in. Nor do they make any allowance for whether or not the keeper is playing behind an Emery-era defence. With that caveat, the numbers show that Emi grabs two-thirds as many again high crosses per 90 mins as Leno. They also confirm that Martinez catches whereas Leno punches. Emi catches eight crosses for every one he punches. Leno’s ratio is one to one.
@23 BtM
I have sent you the code and
link by DM on WhatsApp.
Hope it works!
Cheers, Ned,
It seems the stats verify what my eyes have told me. Who knew ?
Welcome to the bar, Gooner up north@24. Pull up a stool and get yourself something to drink on my tab. Don’t be a stranger.
I regret I don’t remember Rhys Wilmont from the 80’s. Most likely to be my failing memory and dilettante following of the Arsenal at that period.
COYG
I did vaguely remember the name and found Rhys Wilmot on Wikipedia. Only a very brief article which didn’t find space to mention how many feet he kicked with. It seems he was last seen as a coach at Plymouth Argyle the season before last.
Cheers Trev!
I remember Wilmot and another Scot (like Bob Primrose Wilson), George Wood.
I think it’s time to relive Mr Cool’s execution of the Dippers:
Pangloss
Well mentioned!
Jack Kelsey was a terrific keeper in a not very good side and ran the Arsenal Shop for years at the stadium. Although Welsh he was a very nice man . First Arsenal goalie I saw live .
Rhys Willmott played very few games and I can’t remember his kicking …or his goalkeeping for that matter . Worst keeper I ever saw was Malcolm Webster whose error to let in a Best shot cost us a win against Manchester United . I’ve seen safer keepers on our local common .
My final contribution is another piece by Tim Stillman on Xhaka . He rates me even lower than I do. Interesting read
For those who don’t recall Rhys Wilmot, he played eight games for the club in the 1980s. Although he joined as a schoolboy, he spent most of his time out on loan or as cover for Pat Jennings, George Wood and John Lukic, although he was good enough for Arsenal Reserves to pick up six Wales U-21 caps. He left in 1988 for first-team football with Plymouth Argyle. After hanging up his gloves, he ran a pub in Herefordshire and then joined the Devon and Cornwall police. Different era then for old pros. He is now Argyle’s goalkeeping coach and coached Matt Macey when he was on loan there.
Does anyone remember another promising young keeper from the late ’80s, Alan Miller? He was part of the team that won the FA Youth Cup in 1988, but had John Lukic and then David Seaman keeping him out of the first team, so only managed nine appearances for the club. Like Wilmot, he had a loan spell with Argyle, among others, before being sold to Middlesborough.
It is tough being the second-best keeper at a top club.
Dont think thats Sillman TTG. Never seen him write for 7AM Kickoff before?
It says the author is imothyt
Esso
Apologies.
The blogger’s name is Tim and its his style
Ned
I do remember Alan Miller . He was for some time the squeeze of the comely Clare Sweeney which was a notable achievement. He didn’t play much but I saw him play for the youth team . I think he did ok at Boro.
Excellent piece Trev!
I am in favor of keeping both Leno and Emi for this season. Whoever is not playing in PL will still play a lot of matches, and if we go deep into the cup competitions 20-30 matches. As Europa is a big priority this year and we will approach it as one of the favorites those we should have a strong keeper. And if anything the last season showed the importance of two quality options in that position.
And throughout the season look for a potential replacement in next season as most likely one of those two will then want to leave.
If we need to sell one this window, the question is not only who do we sell but also we do we get affordable enough in this short notice as the very important second goalkeeper in the squad.
Ned, thanks for the stats. I knew Emi catches more than he punches but I’m genuinely surprised he claims so many more crosses than Leno. Not the first time my eye test has failed me, it won’t be the last.
TTG, I understand most people have already made up their minds on the Ozil thing, I’m not looking to make anyone change their opinion, I’m just surprised and disappointed it has gotten to a point where gooners like you would feel so bad towards him as to consistently call him a parasite on a public forum. My view of him is that he is a player who came to us when a lot our own were dumping us for greener pastures. He is a player who inspired us to get back to winning trophies again after a long time without any. It was based on that success that we chose to give him a bumper contract and he chose to sign it. Granted it hasn’t worked out as we hoped but there have mitigating circumstances, much of which we, the fans, have insufficient information about.
Yes, he fell out with Emery but so did many of us and we didn’t even have to work under the man daily. As far I know, he has made himself available and trained every time he stood a fair chance of getting in the team. He started every league game under Arteta before the lockdown and played well. What changed after the lockdown? Again we don’t know. There have been lots of positive and negative rumours about the situation, very few of which have been confirmed by the player and none of which have been confirmed by the club. This suggests to me that there’s more to it than meets the eye. Emery, who is the only person we know for sure he fell out with for footballing reasons, has been sacked. Raul Sanlehi who was Emery’s main backer inside the club and basically ran the show this whole time has left the club under very shady circumstances. The fears Mesut stated he had when he rejected the pay cut has also come true – we’ve sacked staff we promised the players we won’t sack if they took the pay cut – again suggesting there’s more to this whole thing than meets the eye.
Yesterday, it was made known that the premier league has terminated it’s deal with broadcasters in Chinese territories. Months ago Mesut criticised the Chinese government and as a result they banned coverage of Arsenal matches he featured in over there. It could all be co-incidence or not but one thing I know for sure is that Mesut Ozil has served Arsenal better and for longer than any of those other shady characters above. More than all of them, he deserves my respect and doesn’t deserve me calling him a leech in private and especially not in public, based on clearly insufficient information fed to the media in an obvious attempt to smear his image.
Again, I’m not looking to convince anyone to think otherwise, just stating my view of the whole thing and why I won t be calling him a parasite anytime soon.
Sh!t, that took a long turn. Sorry.
Cent@41. The raw numbers for claiming high balls is surprisingly low for both of them, so your eyes may not be deceiving you that much. Does make me wonder, however, if the debate over which one is better on crosses actually matters that much (assuming David Luiz is not having one of his bad days!)
I was reading a complex statistical analysis of goalkeepers in the Dutch league that suggested that the three key metrics for keepers are shot-stopping, aggressiveness and distribution. Using some of their measures (the ones I can find data for/understand), Martinez bests Leno on shot-stopping, Leno bests Martinez on aggressiveness and Martinez shades Leno on distribution.
You pays your money and you takes your choice.
GSD, sorry I almost forgot to respond to you. I had Bellerin and Holding in mind. They both suffered bad knee injuries recently but going by the way most of our fans(not necessarily in this bar) talk about them and can’t wait to see them sold, you would think they just suddenly started playing badly for no reason. Before their injuries most of us wished they would sign long term contracts and give us their whole career. Just like we all called for Ozil to do before he signed and things went South.
TTG, Yes, 7amKickoff is indeed written by a bloke named Tim. He wrote the By The Numbers column for years at Arseblog, where Tim Stillman also writes. Perhaps that’s why you mixed them up.
@43, Thank you so much for that clarification, Ned. I suppose Leno’s distribution numbers were not done any favours by playing out from the back under Emery.
I suspect our new management will make their decision, if they have to, based on which of the two “keepers is best at suited to repelling the kind of attacks our style of play, moving forward, attracts.
@GoonerUpNorth
I do remember Rhys Wilmot
and I’m pretty sure I saw him
play for us – though I can’t
remember his kicking style.
A drink on the bar for you sir
in honour of your cracking
memory.
Though come to think of it the
drinks on the bar are probably
why I can’t remember Rhys’s
kicking style or Alan Miller or
even Clare Sweeney 😃
George Wood was very average
much like some of our 21st
century custodians. We’ve been
much better at buying keepers
over the years than developing
them so let’s hope that Emi
bucks that 50 year trend.
TTG, Pangloss: I have only seen Jack Kelsey in old newsreels. He had suffered his career-ending back injury by the time I started watching games. But they say he was the greatest keeper Wales ever had — as good as Lev Yashin back in the day — and that if Arsenal has ever had a better one, it wouldn’t be by much.
@Ned
Many thanks for the defensive
stats Ned. The team figures are
more bunched than I expected
though our own position does
reflect our defensive level I
think. KT’s numbers are a stand
out it seems but then so are
Calum’s at the other end.
Neither played anywhere near
a full season being the obvious
caveat.
an unintended 50 a bit like
a Welbz goal but they all count
so I’ll doff my cap anyway
Cent,
You make your points very civilly and intelligently as you always do and I very much respect your opinion. I’m not the only Holic who has been scathing of the man and I wouldn’t abuse an Arsenal player lightly .
I will draw my criticism to a close by saying that I think Ozil has a PR machine that spins very professionally on his behalf. His contract was an act of desperation by Gazidis and Wenger who feared the backlash from fans if we let Sanchez and him go for nothing. They wildly mishandled those contract renewals . Since he got that contract his onfield displays have been much less effective than previously . Declining powers or something more?
But this isn’t Le Grove and we must be able to respect each other’s perspectives so I will leave it there
Nicely notched Matt.
Let’s hope we see a few crafty fifties against the Aussies today
Yes, I hope so TTG.
Napoli confirmed an interest in
Papa and I expect him to leave
shortly but not sure we should
LT11 leave until after the Fulham
game as Dani is quarantined and
I think there is next to chance of
us getting a midfielder in and
ready to play by then.
Hi All.
Thank you for welcoming me to the bar! Mine’s a Brewdog IPA!
I’ve been following this site for a few years now because i loved to read the reports from the late David Faber. He wrote so well with lots of passion but without the cursing and bad mouthing, unlike some so called Arsenal fan site.
Keep up the good work!
She wore a yellow ribbon!
There is a Brewdog IPA on the bar for Gooner up north. Welcome. And, cheers!
Well in Matt. A classic Welbz.
Welcome Gooner up north!
Interesting piece in today’s Guardian. Seems Sanchez wanted to come back to Arsenal after one training session at Man U.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/sep/04/alexis-sanchez-wanted-to-leave-manchester-united-after-one-training-session
that interview with Sánchez
seems a bit bizarre really.
Welcome Gooner up north!
Appreciating the civil debate about Ozil between Cent and TTG. The more opinions we can get, the better informed we will be, although I have long been leery of carrying a player who we could not depend on to play effectively, or to play at all, or to even travel to places like Bolton, Burnley and Wembley.
Lots of clips of Sanchez flying about today. That first season for us, when he, Ozil and Santi really clicked, had some superb football.
Countryman @58: No wonder given who was the Man U manager then. 🙂 Alexis is a good judge of character, he apparently stays miles away from Vidal when they are together in Chile squad. 🙂
We mismanaged that entire transfer business. Alexis has always been a nomad and when he first started showing interest in moving on and City was willing to pay so much we should have just accepted that and move on.
Speaking of nomads, Herzog’s new documentary about his friend (and the British travel writer) Bruce Chatwin is highly recommended. Typically strange and captivating. And first time I saw Herzog cry. 🙂
Saka nominated for PFA young
player of the year. Nice to see
him getting some recognition.
No Auba in the senior nominations,
but Miedema and Little nominated
in the Women’s award.
Well in for the half ton, OM.
I, too, found the narrow range of the team stats unexpected. I guess a lot of tackles really are 50-50s. I checked van Dijk’s stats out of curiosity as he is generally taken to be the best CB in the league. Even he wins less than 70% of his tackles.
Elneny can play in the pivot with Xhaka until Dani is available. No reason for LT11 not to be off to Italy straightaway. I am guessing that Elneny is going to get a lot of playing time in the early rounds of the cup competitions.
Thanks Dr F – I’ll watch that. On the
Black Hill was a book I enjoyed a lot
and recommended to many people.
You’ve more faith in Elneny than
me Ned. I’d rather play AMN or
Joe W there than Elneny at Fulham.
But I guess MA will stick with him
after what was, to be fair, a decent
performance against Liverpoo.
Managing the line-up in the early games of the season will be especially tricky this year what with the quarantine rules in place and the transfer deadline extending into October .
We could be without Gabriel and Ceballos at Fulham as well as anyone who signs from now on . We may not have available Bellerin, Kolasinac , Holding , Sokratis, Elneny, Torreira , Guendouzi , Ozil or Lacazette in a worst case scenario although if we’ve flogged all of them we will have brought in at least two players . So the team at Craven Cottage might be –
Martinez
AMN Saliba Luiz Tierney Saka
Xhaka Willian
Pepe Nketiah Auba
Willian isn’t really a double pivot type of midfielder but if we’ve lost LT11 and Elneny we won’t have much choice . We could play AMN in midfield and Cedric at right back but I think we will keep Elneny at least until Ceballos is fit and available.
On a positive note Messi is unlikely to be available for Fulham 😃
TTG, Cent et al., I think more success — and more cohesive & energized team performance — we have more irrelevant the Ozil concern will become. I think there is a very simple explanation of what happened and is happening. My attempt at following Occam’s razor…
1. Ozil’s performance at PL was already dipping towards the end of Arsène’s time. (See https://fbref.com/en/players/16380240/Mesut-Ozil ). It is a combination of loss of his physical abilities — contrary to some opinions he was always a hard working player who needed to work hard to find the pockets of spaces to move in and out to find that extra time to be able to orchestrate the attack — and PL getting faster and more physical and almost all teams have coaches and players who were capable of finding out better ways to nullify his strengths.
2. Then came the 2018 world cup where Germany’s failure had found in Ozil a very unfortunate lighting rod. From becoming Germany’s player of the generation — he was awarded German player of the year 5 times, despite not being part of the Bayern establishment — he became an outright pariah.
3. For good or for bad Arsène probably treated Ozil a little differently. There was an interview of Rambo where he — albeit jokingly — mentioned how Ozil was a teacher’s pet.
4. We had extended Ozil’s contract with fanfare and giving him an astronomical new salary. Just like in any walks of life that was bound to make feel Ozil “loved” in Arsenal set-up.
5. When he returned from the World Cup it was obvious he hoped for finding or deepening his roots in Arsenal. If Arsène were still there it would have probably happened this way.
6. Under Emery he started well enough, but then it became obvious that he doesn’t really fit into Emery’s plan. It is a criticism on both sides. Emery had already learned the hard way in PSG how superstars can derail his way of approaching squads — egalitarian, a lot of defensive hard work demanded across all the position — and it was normal for him to try to stamp his authority early on and not let make Ozil feel special. It didn’t work. For Ozil’s part he most likely showed neither enough commitment nor enough humility/respect to try to follow the new manager’s ways however he may dislike it.
7. The alarming loss of technical qualities in the team — we lost Santi, Alexis, TR7, Jack in quick succession — didn’t do Ozil any favor as well. Again, Ozil needed to reinvent his game a little bit which he most likely showed no desire for. Or just didn’t have the physical attributes anymore to do so.
8. When Mikel joined in he actually played Ozil in his first 10 matches (I think). I think it was telling that after the restart Mikel did not start him at all. I think the same happened as did with Emery. Mikel demanded a kind of defensive work rate that Ozil is no longer physically capable of and/or unwilling to do and/or just his strengths no longer add enough to counteract his weaknesses.
9. Now, as an employee, I perfectly understand why Ozil would want to see through his contract and expect his contract will be honored. If the inverse had happened — after signing a contract extension the player started playing much better than his “pay grade” and as a result attracted suitors and would want to move on, but the club of course would demand to have the contract honored — then we would be rightly criticizing the player and not the club.
The current Ozil situation is not really unique to our club. Madrid is having a very similar issue with Bale. Man U was having with Alexis. When we offered him that contract we pretended to be a club like Madrid and Man U who are financially better suited to take that kind of gamble, and we are paying the price for it.
Bruce Chatwin’s On the Black Hill was a very enjoyable read as you say, Matt, and has the added advantage of being a quick read.
Also, Chatwin’s In Patagonia, especially his description of the Welsh community in that remote southern place.
Regarding Ozil, he was indulged far too much under Wenger and once that indulgence disappeared, once Emery had a grasp of exactly the kind of character he had to deal with, he couldn’t earn his place.
I know it’s not the done thing to give Mourinho any credit but he had Ozil sussed out years ago and for all the chatter about how fantastic Ozil thinks Mourinho is, and vice versa, this sums him up. From Ozil’s own book.
‘You think two passes are enough,’ Mourinho screams. ‘You’re too refined to go in for the tackle. You think you’re so good that 50 per cent is enough.’
And we saw plenty from this guy where he’d have a decent game then go on holiday for ten more. He is the worst value signing in our history and the day can’t come soon enough when he goes.
It says something about the Ozil situation that the Doc’s effort to apply Occam’s Razor is 9 paragraphs long!
I don’t care about the history at this point. Right now the bloke gets paid loads of money and doesn’t get picked. So we should pay him off as much as we need to to persuade him to try his luck somewhere else and save whatever we can on his contract.
Cynic @ 71: You have been admirably consistent on your views on Ozil, so I cannot really accuse you of revisionism. 🙂
I just don’t agree that you play 4 seasons at Madrid and have 66 G+A from 105 matches in the league giving your 50%. Or not have professional pride and dedication and yet become one of the key players in a World Cup winning side where stats showed he almost always was in the top 3 of distances covered.
I don’t think it is a question of “character”, but more likely playing style and inability to reinvent/change as the game moves on and also the circumstances around him.
Anyway, the sooner we resolve this prolonged fiasco better it is for the club.
GSD @ 72: ha ha ha! Spot on…was thinking about exactly the same.
And in full agreement with your @73. Let us draw a line in the sand. Soon.
Eddie has just scored a rapid hat trick for England u21s.
Well played that man.
My last words on Ozil.
I enjoyed your thoughtful analysis Dr.F .In the Man United game on New Year’s Day, Ozil was sensational and ( I think) ran further and made more recoveries than anyone on the pitch . He appeared reinvented but it didn’t last . Cynic has been consistently scathing but I really enjoyed early Ozil. I remember Holic describing an improvised pass to Giroud as ‘ playmaking porn’ – a brilliant phrase and very apt.
The issue I have has nothing to do with employment rights . He has refused to take a pay cut ( his right ) but I am sad to see a top footballer content to sit on his backside when he could for the same money ( Arsenal would subsidise any shortfall from a move) play elsewhere and demonstrate his unique skills . I wonder what he will tell his daughter about the latter stages of his career. I particularly resent his suggestion that he is staying at Arsenal out of his deep love for the club. That doesn’t wash with me
End of ..as they say
Don’t leave me hanging like that TTG. What IS the difference between “I will leave it there” and “End of”?
Ceballos loan for the season is confirmed on .com
Nice
Dr F @68 good analysis.
TTG @77, I too enjoyed early Özil – a class player.
Post-contract Özil is a morality tale: excessive wealth destroys ambition, application and integrity.
Welcome back Dani!
What Bath said @80 Dr F.
Sorry for the late replies, all.
I think you’ve all made very fair, albeit to varying degrees, assumptions of the situation given the lack of concrete information we have. The name-calling is really all I was against.
P.s. If I, somehow, fluked my way into any kind of Arsenal contract, they would have to use force to eject me from the premises to make me leave, even if everyone there told me they didn’t want me there. Even if I knew I was the worst footballer ever, as long as the contract says I can be there, I would be there. 😂🤣
Welcome, Gooner Up North.
What IS the difference between “I will leave it there” and “End of”?
IWLIT = I have lots more to say but for now I will leave it, though I’m really dying to say more given the opening, so hopefully someone will try to prolong the discussion and I will carry on. 🙂
EO = I’m right and, if we’re arguing, you are wrong so don’t even bother trying to get any more out of me on the subject, as I really have said all I want to. So there. 🙂
Pangloss
Buggered if I know
What is your view on Ozil?
Welcome back Dani Ceballos. I hope he does pick up where he left off, which was as our most effective midfielder in the second half of the season.
Cynic. So much meaning in so few words. Quite the language, English. 😉
Dani Ceballos giving us two of the best years of his life, must be a good thing.
Be great if Dani can kick on this
season and become a top PL
midfielder – he has the ability
I think, now it’s a matter of will
and durability.
If you can make a CM partnership
with Xhaka in it effective at the
top level then you will be a man
my son.
I am thrilled we have Dani back. Although with no option to buy I am a little concerned he may kick on and have an excellent season, adding plenty to his value if we want to buy him down the line, or persuading Real Madrid to fight hard to keep him, which he might be quite up for.
Anyway, that only becomes a problem if he has a great season. So let’s see if he does that. If so, I’m sure I’ll be pleased about it!
Ceballos had a very up and down season but it was his first at the club and he had to endure a nasty injury and the inconsistency of Emery‘s tutelage . I’m told that a huge part of Arteta’s touchline coaching is directed towards Dani. As Mikel was a fine central midfielder he is well qualified to do so and you could see a huge improvement in his performances over the season and his consistenc improved significantly. His stats weren’t as impressive as his performances and we hope he can add more creativity. Much will depend on who else we sign in midfield to play alongside him and whether we play a two or a three in midfield . I won’t mention the X word but I believe with a dynamic partner or partners and with a creative 10 ahead of him he could have a great season
Nutshell @92, TTG.
Dr F@68: Very good assessment of Ozil, to my mind.
There is an observable trend in many sports that players get their biggest contracts once they are just past their peak.
Good to see Dani is returning.
And talking of Spanish midfielders, how about this from Santi:
https://www.bbc.com/sport/av/football/54025093
TTG@85
My view on Ozil remains much the same – once a great player of whom we have not seen enough recently. I am content to allow Arteta to judge whether or we get to see him perform again soon (which is since like us all, I am powerless to influence things).
As to “the Ozil situation” my views remain completely unchanged since we last spoke about it. I agree entirely with Cent’s distaste for some of the language that has been used in the discussion.
COYG
Jebus this England game is dull. Think I’ll go and cook a bouillabaisse.
Pangloss
But what would YOU do with him. Of course it’s up to Arteta but do you think he has a role to play ?
I’m standing by my description of him and one or two others have used similar language . He is a stain on our club and he can’t leave quick enough for me
Kyle Walker sent off vs Iceland. Once a Spud ……
Inspired by the memory of the genius DB10, curls a tantalising ball into the box behind the defenders for…
Once a Spud..always useless and unreliable!
Well in TTG. Another unconscious ton. In off the arse?
No Bath this one was opportunistic like Auba must have been today .Alarmingly although he scored a brace we lost 3-2 to Villa,. That’s six goals shipped in a week. Ozil, Willian and Ceballos played which means Dani is available for the Fulham game .Don’t understand the quarantine rules !
Bellerin and Holding played too.
We have a lot of players away – Leno, AMN , Tierney , Nketiah, Saka, Nelson , Guendouzi , Xhaka come to mind and Gabriel is quarantining but he must be coming out of that soon .
Two home defeats in a week. Arteta out! 😃
TTG@97 I’d try to persuade him to play; failing that I’d get rid. I would waste my breath or anyone else’s time abusing him.
COYG
Well he played today. We lost 3-2 to Villa.
Oh that the solution were so simple . He is not ‘ get riddable ‘ of . He is a £17.5 million millstone . Presumably as Arteta didn’t pick him after lockdown he doesn’t rate his contribution.
Ozil is not a lazy player but he has never showed any enthusiasm for being part of a co-ordinated press or consistently positioning himself to block passing lanes.
He also plays as a number 10… yet our current formation has no number 10. So I’m struggling to see where he fits into our team, even if his form were to improve and come back into line with his unquestionable ability. Not that we have seen anything to offer us encouragement in that direction.
I’m not calling him names. But I can’t see where he fits in and I’d be much happier if he left than if we have to listen to weekly questions about our top earner who never plays.
Also, it is his fault we lost to Villa. 😉
Leicester replace full-back Chilwell, who has moved to Chelsea.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/53985035
Well in for the ton, TTG.
As for the Villa game, as Arseblog said, “it’s time to massively overreact to a result that doesn’t mean anything in a game none of have seen.”
Mikel’s statement that everyone
starts the season on a level
playing field is true judging by
the return of Guen to training
and Ozil for a warm up game.
I would have ruled both out for
the future if it wasn’t for the
rehabilitations of Mus and Xhaka.
As it is I will wait and see what
happens.
Auspicious start to the season for 19 of the league’s 20 clubs?
Brand new signing Kostas Tsimikas is expected to miss Liverpool’s opening game of the Premier League season after testing positive for coronavirus.
Good news that Dani played.
And some players getting a
little practice in during the
international games. Far from
ideal but I’m beginning to believe
we can put out a decent XI next
week.
I think the return of Guendouzi to training and Ozil to the team is weak. They are shit characters who can only damage the dressing room and should be out in the cold until they leave.
My local club has just got rid of a similar problem with a player who’d been at the club forever and was a forceful personality, but until he’d gone nobody realised what a bad atmosphere was in the dressing room, even though he was well liked by the other players. He just brought the whole place down and with these two I reckon the same sort of thing will happen, or already has happened.
You can like your work mate as a person and still hate them as a work mate.
Oh, hi Mesut. No back ache today? Oh yeah, we’re playing Shit Arse United at home aren’t we…
Cynic. Mikel knows what he is doing. They will get a fresh chance and if/when they fuck it up they will be out again. And they won’t be able to complain to their pals that they were treated unfairly.
Shit Arse United. No club has ever had more realistic founders.
It seems that Dani was exempt
from the quarantine as he was
in an elite sports organisation
protective bubble as were the
players returning from international
duty though a different kind of
bubble apparently. Perhaps it was
like those bubbles that used to
chase No 6 around in The Prisoner.
Utter bollocks though it seems
it’s good news for us.
I should give Arseblog credit for
this info as that is where I got
it.
Except the Patrick McGoohan
bit – that was from my own arse
Back to goalkeepers: the U-23s keeper, 18-year-old Karl Hein, has won his first senior cap for Estonia, joining Northern Ireland CB Daniel Ballard as a full international who has yet to make an appearance for the Arsenal first team.
Competitive appearance, that is. Ballard got some minutes in the friendly against MK Dons.
I’m getting quite concerned because I’m agreeing with Cynic more these dats but what Guen and Ozil are involved in is not indicative of first team integration in the true sense and we do need to keep them both fit . Arteta has shown he is not weak in fact he has taken a very strong line with both players . Both have poor attitudes. Ozil is too old to change but maybe Guendouzi is redeemable ? I praised him at Brighton for showing more fight than the others and seeming to care more but clearly Arteta saw things he disliked .
Nobody looks keen to take him off the shelf because they know we are in a bind with him . Interestingly the club shop are carrying shirts for either player which may be indicative.
Ned,
Re your observation on Ballard and Hein I don’t think they’ve even been part of the first-team squad and neither had many U23 appearances . I’m told Medley was MOTM for Gillingham yesterday as they had to play most of the second half with ten men but kept a clean sheet
I think, looking at it from outside of course, that Ozil just doesn’t want to play any more and hasn’t since the World Cup, and Guendouzi got carried away with himself and thinks he has made it and has nothing to learn, and he doesn’t have to listen to anyone either, because he’s already the complete player.
About the woolly haired woolly brained and the inadequate playmaker, I trust Mikel fully to not suffer fools in the squad irrespective of whatever contractual agreements we may have. If we cannot offload them and they are not willing to do what’s needed I expect them to line up for the U-23s and if they refuse I expect us to terminate their contract (which I think we can if a player refuses to play?)
But what’s up with our captain’s extension? Signed but to be announced later? Discussions going on? TTG, what’s your inside info?
I meant to say that the club shop is NOT carrying shirts showing the names of either player. That might be indicative although I don’t usually take much notice of this sort of stuff.
Dr.F
My inside info is very limited these days but nobody has indicated anything other than it’s a done deal. All the journalists who work regularly with the club including the online media suggest it is sorted and there is going to be a timed announcement . There may be some small details to sort out but were the problem deeper I think we might be hearing indications from Auba’s side .
TTG@122: Both Ozil and Guendouzi shirts for sale online. Buy now while stocks last…
Our third round Carabao Cup game, on September 30, two days after Liverpool away, will be away to Leicester City.
My error, the date is w/b September 21. We have West Ham at home on Sunday 20th.
Hein started 11 of the U-23s’ 13 Premier League 2 games last season. Ballard was out on loan at Swindon last season and got badly injured, but started 17 of the U-23s’ games the season before. Both have been involved in first-team training, though neither have been involved in competitive match-day squad.
I’ve see Ballard play in the youth team with Medley and he looked a big, dominant centre back who the bloke next to me said was famed for spectacular clearances off the line. When I saw him we won rather easily so that bit wasn’t needed . We have two young almost rookie CBs who I think Arteta will start soon in the first team so it’s hard to accommodate another in the squad . Young McGuinness looks decent as well but e yes will probably need time on loan before they get considered for the seniors
I’ve see Ballard play in the youth team
He used to live in a High Rise on a Concrete Island you know.
I think the only way out of the Ozil situation is to use Joorabchian to broker a deal with one of the three leading Istanbul clubs . That deal might be that you pay him £100 k a week and we cover the rest . Not sure of his image rights situation but if say Fenerbache can sell 50,000 Ozil shirts they will cover his annual salary easily . If that money goes to him he will get a lot more cash than he would if he stayed in UK. He is free to negotiate a mega contract at the end of his deal with Arsenal
We word a suitably conciliatory parting message, he plays in a country that loves him ( he has probably burnt his boats in Germany, Spain and elsewhere in England). He has enhanced status as the idol of Turkish football near his mate Erdogan , plays in a league which probably suits him at this stage of his career and we save enough per week to pay a new, top player .
I will sort out the Brexit negotiations next week 😃
He used to live in a High Rise on a Concrete Island you know.
He is a pillar of the community
Unlike Ozil, who is a pillock of the community.
Sorry, I had to.
*off to the naughty step without any supper*
Neither Cedric Soares nor Mari appear in our 2020-21 squad on the Premier League site. Ozil and Guendouzi do, since you ask. So do James Olayinka and Tyreece John-Jules, though both are under 21, and could play league games regardless (as could Guendouzi, come to that). ESR is listed with the squad number 32, though he doesn’t have a shirt number on the club site. Sixteen of our permitted 17 slots for non-homegrown players are taken: Leno, Tierney, Sokratis, Gabriel, Mustafi, David Luiz, Kolasinac, Ozil, Torreira, Elneny, Xhaka, Ceballos, Lacazette, Aubameyang, Pepe and Willian. Still room for Partey!
Of the others listed, Martinez, Macey, Bellerin, Holding, Chambers and ANM count as home-grown. Saliba, Willock, Guendouzi, ESR, Saka, Olayinka, Nelson, Nketiah, Martinelli and John-Jules qualify as Under-21s.
The Premier League squad can be adjusted until the end of the transfer window, so plenty of time for changes.
TTG@129: The only weakness in your cunning plan is Joorabchian’s fee for brokering such a deal.
By all accounts, Ballard looked good playing for Northern Ireland. But you are right about there being a long queue of CBs for him to get past.
Still room for Partey? By all means let’s head on in to the Partey room then.
I hope we do get one of Aouar
or Partey, if not I reserve the right
to sob because it’s aouar partey and
I’ll cry if I want to.
Wasn’t it Sammy Nelson who
used to have more caps for
NI than Arsenal appearances?
And John Devine too, though
that was the south if memory
serves.
Anyway Ballard/Medley are
currently No’s 9 and 10 in our
hit parade of CBs.
OM@135: 🙂
Superb, OM @135. 👏👏👏
Whisper it in TTG’s presence, but it seems that Xhaka gave a worldie performance for Switzerland against Germany at the weekend.
OM @ 135.
Love it!
Baff @ 139.
He has got this season’s one worldie performance out of the way nice and early then.
Whisper it in TTG’s presence, but it seems that Xhaka gave a worldie performance for Switzerland against Germany at the weekend
Bath ,
Several people have pointed this out to me 😃. It was very nice of the German team to stand off him and enable him to play his favoured quarterback role. I hope all PL teams are as obliging !
I first saw him play in Euro 2016 and was very impressed. He played as almost an auxiliary centre back and had enormous time on the ball to pick unpressured passes. I think international football suits him much better because of the different pace and the role that Switzerland have crafted for him . Sadly I don’t think we can bespoke a similar role for him which enables him to flourish in his favoured way . Clearly Arteta sees a player he can work with. Whether he would/ will start if we sign Partey and Aouar with Dani back at the club I doubt. But then I doubt we will be able to bag both of them
I have to agree with all of that, TTG.
Re 141
GSD and I are the opposite of believers in Granit !
In reality I think most on here have reservations given our discussions following Btm’s excellent piece on midfielders . Some of the recent analyses we’ve featured on here have underlined his limitations very well. In summary he is extremely effective if he doesn’t have possession.
I’m still pretty useful myself as long as no one gives me the ball 😃
Matt @ 135,
That reminds me of a song I used to sing in the Indian restaurant when they questioned my order –
It’s my chapatti and I’ll korai if I want to. 😏
Trev, kindly join Cynic on the naughty step 😂😂
Plenty of candidates for the
naughty step today but it’s
already packed with England
players
C100,
I’ll happily join Cynic on the naughty step as long as I can sit on a different korma. 😆
I’m with TTG all the way on Xhaka. He has too many flaws. When playing him we still need a midfielder who can protect the defence, one who can link play to the forwards and one who can provide creativity and threat in the final third. So why bother with him at all?
His quarterback skillset is unnecessary. As much as he sometimes does nice things on the pitch there is too much he does not do that needs to he done. Play him in Europe and sell him next summer.
Foden and Greenwood kindly donating their places in the next England squad to Eddie and Bukayo. Two young men who will not behave like arrogant fuckwits in the middle of a global pandemic.
And none of them social distancing…
Well in for the ton and a half, GSD.
Well in GSD you are cruising through the numbers like Jos Buttler yesterday!
Foden and Greenwood typify the stupidity of many modern footballers ( and the occasional fast bowler). There appears to be a change in mindset among young males ( especially) which suggests they are impervious to the virus . I suspect we are losing the community spirit that prevailed in March and April . Young fit athletes won’t come to much harm…but their grandparents might
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