TTG’s recent piece on the most impactful transfers of his lifetime made me think about where the £2,000 Herbert Chapman paid for Cliff ‘Boy’ Bastin in the summer of 1929 would rank.
Less than seven months earlier, Chapman had shattered the British transfer record by buying David Jack from Bolton Wanderers for £10,647, making him the first five-figure player. However, Jack was in his late twenties, a proven First Division goalscorer and an England international. Bastin had barely turned 17, with just six goals in 17 Third Division South appearances for his hometown club, Exeter City.
Spending £2,000 on a teenager — worth £163,000 in today’s money but upwards of £20 million in the inflated currency of football transfers — raised eyebrows.
The story goes that in April 1929, Chapman ‘discovered’ Bastin when scouting a Watford player but was so impressed by the young inside left playing for Watford’s opponents that he signed him the next day. Bastin was likely more of a known entity than that story implies. First, he had turned professional and made his league debut at the notably young age of 16 and second; he had played representative football, including for England Schoolboys against Wales in 1926 when he was 14.
The meticulously well-informed Chapman would likely have been aware of that. Wherever the truth lies, Bastin became an Arsenal player in June 1929, making his debut nine games into the new season on October 5 in a 1-1 draw against Everton at Goodison Park.
He played the next game, another draw, against Derby County at Highbury, but not again until the Boxing Day visit to Portsmouth. There, he was switched from inside to outside left. Chapman had finally found the player to fill the winger’s role the way he saw it. After that, Bastin was rarely out of a team that would dominate the 1930s, playing at least 35 games a season until injury restricted his appearances in 1938–39.
By then, Bastin was an Arsenal legend, collecting five First Division title winners medals, two FA Cup winners medals and 21 England caps. When England picked him in November 1931, still only 19, he was the youngest player to have won an England cap, a League title (1930-31) and the FA Cup (1930).
Proto-Pires
Moving Bastin to the left wing was the final piece in the puzzle that completed Chapman’s first trophy-winning side. Wingers then were typically mazy dribblers who hugged the touchline, beat their full-back on the outside and swung over crosses aimed at the forehead of a battering-ram centre-forward who would bundle ball, keeper and anyone or anything else in the way into the back of the net.
Chapman wanted his wingers to score goals, not just provide them. He moved them in from the touchline into what we now call the half-spaces, ready to latch onto the long passes that Alex James and the underrated Bob John threaded inside the full-backs. They then used their pace to cut in directly on goal. Whether or not Chapman invented the role or, as with his WM formation, refined to perfection ideas being experimented with by others, it was key to his unorthodox counterattacking game that brought Arsenal its first sustained run of silverware.
It also let Chapman deploy an additional player in midfield to give the overload needed for his system of covering that was key to Arsenal’s renowned defence. Exceptionally, Alex James played more like a 6 than the 10 that inside lefts of the day were numerically and positionally.
In Bastin on the left and Joe Hulme on the right, Chapman had two of the first inverted wingers — although not in the modern sense; Bastin was left-footed, and Hulme right-footed, so both played on their ‘natural’ wing. Hulme was famed for his blistering pace, but Bastin was quick and had the composure in front of goal to perfectly play this new role. His tally of 178 goals in 396 games stood as the club record until 1997 when Ian Wright surpassed it. His club record of 150 league goals lasted until 2006, when Thierry Henry topped it.
Bastin was only 27 when the Second World War broke out, and the Football League was suspended. Had the war and leg injuries that sidelined him for nearly half the 1938-39 season, in which he scored just four goals, not denied him several more years at his peak, he would almost certainly have added the eight goals to his tally needed to push Wrighty down a notch and possibly the 51 to do the same to TH14.
His place as Arsenal’s third-highest goalscorer will be secure for a while. Our current career highest scorer, Starboy Saka, will have to score more than 20 goals a season for the next seven seasons to catch up.
The war years
Bastin spent the war as an ARP Warden. The Army rejected him for active duty because of his worsening deafness. There are stories that he had such trouble hearing teammates’ shouts against the crowd noise that Alex James would flash him hand signals to indicate where he was going to pass the ball.
The war also brought a cameo in the classic 1942 propaganda film One of Our Aircraft is Missing, Bastin’s second film role after a part in the Arsenal Stadium Mystery shot in 1939.
More bizarrely, in 1941, an Italian radio broadcast said that he had been captured during the Battle of Crete — claiming the demise of prominent Allied personalities was a practice of Axis propaganda broadcasters seeking to weaken civilian morale. However, this fake news was undermined by the fact that Bastin was on duty on the roof of Highbury along with his fellow ARP Warden Arsenal physio, Tom Whittaker.
The broadcast might also have been payback for Bastin’s participation in the ‘Battle of Highbury’ in 1934. An England XI with seven Arsenal players beat the Italian national side that had just won the second FIFA World Cup in what is regarded as one of the most violent games ever.
Bastin played some wartime games for the club and was still an Arsenal player when the Football League resumed. However, deep into his thirties and a shadow of the winger he was because of his injuries, he played only seven more times without scoring. His final competitive Arsenal goal had come six and a half years earlier, against Sunderland at Highbury in February 1939.
His final match was a 5-2 defeat by Manchester United at Maine Road (Old Trafford was unusable because of war damage) in September 1946. He formally retired the following January and went to run a cafe on the North Circular Road with his wife, Joan. There, a teenage Brian Granville interviewed him for a ghostwritten autobiography published in 1950. While far from a ‘kiss-and-tell’, it became controversial because of Bastin’s forthright opinions on some teammates’ shortcomings and those of Chapman’s successor, George Allison, whom Bastin accused of losing ‘the Chapman way’. In 1938, Allison had told Bastin to take a month off ‘to recover his appetite for the game’.
Bastin subsequently returned to Exeter, where he became the landlord of the Horse and Groom pub. He died in 1991 at the age of 79.
Legacy
In an age when young men generally looked older than they were, the Boy Wonder, as Whitaker had called him, was the opposite. His youthful looks and slight frame — 5’8″ and weighing barely 150 pounds throughout his career — famously earned him the soubriquet, ‘Boy’ Bastin. Even in his wedding photographs — he married in the summer of 1939 in the same church in Hendon where Chapman lay buried — he looks younger than his 27 years and even than his bride, four years his junior. As you will hear in the stilted interviews in the Pathe News film below, shot ahead of the 1932 Cup Final, even Bastin called himself Boy.
Len Shackleton, the great Sunderland and England inside forward in the late 1940s and 1950s, wrote in his autobiography that growing up in Yorkshire, he and his schoolmates all wanted to be Bastin in their playground games. Yet the quiet, almost introverted Bastin’s legacy is not to be Arsenal’s first superstar. Alex James, who joined the club at the same time as Bastin, would outrank him in that crowded firmament, and the accolade probably belongs to Andy Ducat, who played for the club three decades earlier.
Bastin’s career achieved so much so early and ended too soon. He said the 1930-31 side that delivered Arsenal’s first title was the finest he played in. Your correspondent would contend that assertion, but Bastin’s prodigious and particular talents — speed, clinical finishing and a sharp football brain — were the key to Arsenal’s innovative counterattacking football that swept all before it in the 1930s. Without that, none of the Chapman-era teams would have been as great and successful as they were—two thousand pounds shrewdly spent.
Thanks Ned! A great read and the burrowing monks of Castle Ned have outdone themselves.
Cheers Need! Brilliant peace of history. Ohh Boy. 🙂
And also a big thank for Trev. The last drink about the charity was very enjoyable. Thank for thevgreat reads.
Ned- whatva splendid piece on such a deserving subject . As I grew interested in football ( which in my house meant Arsenal) I discussed the great Arsenal teams and players with my father who started going to Highbury in 1924 ( aged 4).
He was a huge fan of Bastin – he always called him ‘ Boy’ Bastin – and towards the end of his life we were able to compare Bastin with Pires- a fitting and fair comparison of two wonderful players .
His two- footedness was a huge asset and apparently he had a ferocious shot . I saw him interviewed a couple of times but his deafness made that a difficult process . What is interesting about the assembly of Arsenal’s first great side is how Chapman”s ability to identify talent gave is a wonderful blend . Football then was very different but players like Bastin would have flourished in any era. Great work Ned and those monks
Bravo, Ned. You have taken us back through the decades and beyond to a time I don’t recognize but Bastin’s star was clearly bright and his legacy enduring. Wrighty and Thierry had a lot to do to surpass him if indeed they did. Certainly they didn’t in terms of silverware won.
As a newcomer in this pub (blog) I felt pointed by the question of commenting. And I can tell you it’s not always easy. You know each other for a long time many of you personally as well. So you always give feedback or some kind of appreciation to each other but to an unknown newcomer… You know a thing or two about The Arsenal and football in general so usually it is hard to find (write) something that is valid, clever and not written already in the blog or comments.
This is my favorite Arsenal blog. Funny, intelligent with style and I do comment and can tell you that moments when those comments made impressions (I got @) are precious.
COYG
Well said, Las. Your comments are always appreciated and well expressed. As far as feeling like the outsider, we’ve all been there so no worries. You won’t much longer if you stick with us. Only five more years. (Just kidding!)
As far as identifying the cast of characters, the only important thing to remember is that TTG is the old guy. Except for Clive (Gooner since 54) who’s the even older guy. The rest of us might as well be a bunch of spring chickens. Except that nearly none of us is, with a few exceptions like 21st Century Gooner whose name was well chosen.
Excellent piece, Ned! And (and Trev for the last post). Actually, I should use this opportunity to give kudos to everyone on the writing team: well done, gents.
@Las
Hi Las, to be honest I hadn’t realized you were a newcomer 👋👋
I think I got you mixed up with someone called Lars, who was a regular
long before I joined in.
Anyway, everyone is welcome and as we were saying in the drinks
a couple of days ago it is great to see new faces as the more
people chatting the more fun it is.
Las,
You are most welcome and your insights are very much appreciated . This is your bar as much as anyone else and we hope you feel free to comment whenever you wish
And I’m not that much older than a number of regulars here !
Have a good day !
Really enjoyable read, Ned. Thanks so much for putting the work in.
Las, and any other readers out there: no need to be shy about joining in. I can vouch for the fact this this blog and bar are among the most welcoming and open spaces on the interweb. Look forward to hearing more from you….
Thanks Ned – top top piece,
Having checked out the clip attached I looked at the next one – a 5-0 tonking of the Spudz with “that” Brady goal, a Sunderland hat-trick, Jennings launching rockets that came down with ice on and Ardiles and Perryman losing their tempers. Ha ha ha.
UTA.
Thanks Ned for this well researched piece and highly enjoyable and informative read – a hallmark of course, of a NBN Monks’ product. This piece belongs alongside the best historical pieces of the Guvna. It’s a shame that there is so little footage of these great players of the past whose reputations were preserved by fans of TTG’s Pa’s generation but who are largely forgotten after those who saw them, themselves depart these shores. Pieces such as this are important in preserving their memory as well as reminding us of the heritage of the great club we all support. Oooh to be…
It’s good to see the bar buzzing. Las @5, we’ve all been there, as bt8 @6 said. The water’s lovely! Just jump in! (Mixing metaphors like a cocktail!) Sadly the drinks on the bar are virtual but there’s a glass of your favourite tipple waiting on the bar for you. Good to see you back in, Cent and Noosa. As they say in Scotland, “Haste ye back!”
A brilliant post Ned. The 30s are a mystical period to most Arsenal supporters. We know it was a great period for the club, we’ve read the biographies of Chapman but we don’t really visualise what the play was like because there are so few moving images. There’s some lovely colourin this piece. I’d be intrigued to know what your sources were.
Thanks, all, for the kind words. Writing it was a labour of love, as you can probably tell. I am coming to think of the Chapman-era teams as not just great teams with great players, as five league titles in eight seasons attest, but the revolution that created modern football.
TTG@3: I am sure Bastin was accomplished with both feet. All great players are. Yet, he was, by his own admission, predominantly left-footed. As you probably know, or your father may have told you, Bastin took the penalties for the club. There are a few on film. He takes them left-footed (and hits them hard); penalty takers don’t use their weaker foot. Also, in his autobiography, discussing a time when his left knee was repeatedly ‘going out’, he describes his left leg as the one that made him famous.
Las@5: I second everything everyone else says about how welcome you are here. I think it was Trev who came up with the tagline for the Guv’nor of ‘Virtual Bar, Real Friends’. That is very much the spirit this place seeks to honour. If you are here, you are ‘in’. There are no outsiders. Everyone’s comments are equally valued.
C100: There used to be these portable, direct-read output, distributed databases that never seem to need recharging called books and newspapers, though I am dammed if I can figure out how they are programmed.
C100
I think I have mentioned before that as a boy I read and re-read ‘ Forward Arsenal ‘ by Bernard Joy. He was an ex- Arsenal centre half who became a Fleet Street journalist . I found his book compelling and knew it virtually off by heart especially the bits where we started to win things. As a supporter in the sixties it was so frustrating that our success was all in the past. Apart from Dad I met lots of older supporters at Highbury who remembered the likes of James, Bastin , Hapgood and Drake . So I felt that I knew the stories of those players intimately .But those old supporters have gone and as you say newsreel film is hard to come by and very sketchy.One evening in New York, racked with jet-lag I watched the Arsenal Stadium Mystery on a cable channel. Ned mus5 have similar feelings of incongruity as I had tgat night.
It’s one of the worst films ever made but it is an insight into the culture that prevailed at Highbury at that time. If you remember Harry Enfield’s Cholmondely Warner skits , George Allison is a spitting image!
It’s so important to remember because our club was built on those foundations and it was the best and biggest team in the world then .But then it will be again next season !
Cheers Ned, fantastic piece, I enjoyed it.
Penalty takers don’t use their weaker foot?
Generally yes. But.
And not just any penalty, the decisive one to qualify for the European Cup semifinal.
I only listened to it on the radio, but when you think of it, it’s mental. He wasn’t even vaguely ambidextrous, he certainly was no Cazorla.
A bit more about that match and the epic trip it involved (sorry in French, hopefully it’s translatable with all the new tools available in browsers these days) here:
https://www.sofoot.com/articles/et-bordeaux-sortit-dnipropetrovsk-de-la-c1-ligue-europa-1-2-finales-retour-dnipro-naples
TTG @ 16: I once started reading that Joy book, but never got to finish it.
I had won it in an arseblog compeition, started reading it on my way back from Tel-Aviv…but forgot it in the plane. I never got it back.
A wonderful piece Ned.
My dad had a different route to most in becoming a lifelong Gooner.
He along with his Sister, through unfortunate circumstances, spent his childhood in a Children’s home in the Islington area.
All the local shops in the High street near where the Home was situated, had a long term commitment to offer jobs to the kids when they came of age to leave.
For reasons Dad never really understood, he chose to take up a junior position in a Butchers shop.
This turned out to be the fickle hand of fate working in his favour after his sad childhood.
The reason being, the Butchers shop staff were all lifelong Gooners.
Every Saturday Arsenal were at home the shop closed at lunchtime and they all went off to Highbury taking Dad along with them, so his introduction to the world of football was the wonderful years of the Trophy winning sides in the 30’s watching the likes of Bastin/James/Jack etc.
He, like TTG’s Father, always spoke very fondly of that group of players, many of whom had their careers interrupted by the outbreak of the 2nd World war.
He also spoke about how he was eternally mystified how such a dominant group of great players, never won the Double, as the only 2 FA cups they won in that era were 2 seasons that they didn’t win the league.
He was also lucky enough to see the Title winning sides of 47/48 and 52/53, which turned out to be the last of the feast, before the famine arrived, and little did we know that the first game he took me to in 1954, was going to be the be the first of a very very long 16 year wait before our next Trophy was to arrive in the Fairs Cup Final of 1970, where Dad and I along with thousands of other ecstatic supporters danced on the pitch that famous night at Highbury.
I can still see that amazing night in my minds eye, a lot of tears of joy were shed and everyone that was there, just didn’t want the night to end.
Little did we know what was in store for us the following season. !!
Some great posts, thanks gents.
That’s such a moving story, Clive. Thank you for starting my work week on thoughtful and uplifting note. At the end of the day, beyond the actual football, it is so often the personal things and links which make our club so dear to us.
Great stuff, Clive. And what CER said.
Lovely memories, gents. Drinks all round.
Hello Pangloss, are you there?
A great read and some great drinks!
Cheers Ned and Everyone!
Another great post Ned – not only so informative but put in a way that makes it very readable, well done to you & the monks. Also a super post from Clive and many others maintaining this site as classy as The Arsenal.
Even I was not around at the time Boy Bastin was playing. The family moved away from
N London to the countryside in the early ‘50s due to my father’s ongoing health issues but following the passing of my maternal grandmother in 1957 we moved back to Crouch Hill so my mother could be close to her father. This is when I was allowed to walk to the H of F at Highbury with my mates. As Clive pointed out this was a dark period of mediocrity until that magical night we won the InterCity Fairs cup at home to Anderlecht in 1970 and we danced our celebratory way on the hallowed turf. We not only endured the lack of success in those years but it was measured against the fantastic success that preceded it in the not too distant past.
Clive@19: A remarkable personal story.
On the ’30s teams and the double, Bastin said that the 1931-32 season was the closest that any of them got to the double. They were pipped for the league by two points by Everton and lost the notorious ‘over the line’ FA Cup Final to Newcastle. In his conversations with Glanville, Bastin was clearly aware of how coveted a prize a double was and said that they had let it slip through their grasp that season. They won three of their four league games after the Cup Final, drawing the other, but it was a run of three draws and two defeats between March 26 and April 9 that cost them the title, despite having beaten Everton home and away in Dixie Dean’s record goal-scoring season.
For information to silver holders, community shield tix go n sale to silvers at 10am tomorrow (Tuesday) morning.
Oooh, I was waiting for the update on that situation, cheers, C100.
Back to the regular queuing on the Online Box Office then. :-p
Also I have read that the success rate for general silvers for the Forest Match was…28 %.
Which is incredibly ridiculously low. Especially for Forest in the middle of August.
I do suspect however that with the new system, lots of Silvers with no intention to attend will apply for all the matches………(but it also shows that either there are not that many tickets available or there are shit loads of Silvers who were hiding until last year, whichever way, this is really crap news, I am getting sorted for Forest and Fulham thanks to a ST friend on holidays, but after that, I might start completely giving up, might have to miss a weekend home NLD for the first time in 17 years……..it sucks).
Ned@27, that feels chillingly familiar. Much like ‘99!
bath@30: Painful memories, especially Giggs’s extra-time goal in the semi-final.
In 1931-32, the league didn’t go down to the last game of the season. We won ours, and Everton lost theirs, but they had secured the title the week before. In ’99, if the neighbours could have held their lead against the red Mancs, we would have retained the title, but you can’t rely on that shower for anything.
Clive
Thankyou for giving us the details of your Dad’s affiliation with the Arsenal ( my Dad always asked me if I was going to THE Arsenal) . I started my support in 1958 but didn’t start going until 1961 ( with my Dad ) .I started going on my own when I had some money in 1966.
I was at the Fairs Cup final and have been lucky enough to discuss it with several of the players who represented us that night. It was an incredible moment in the club’s history . A real watershed . I was very relieved to survive the crowd surges that night. They were extraordinarily dangerous
Not sure how this photo angle was managed, but it does appear as if Cliff Bastin is on the verge of kicking the camera.
The Arsenal Online Box Office: getting worse every single year.
‘This Event is NOT YET available to you’. So much for the 10pm ticket sale to Silver.
Perhaps we should pay for some competent people not just on the football field in this day and age……….
ok, now they’re on…
And so I am going to the Community Shield!
Weirdly (or not), I have done a few FA/League Cup finals but never been to the Community/Charity Shield……
Well done Ollie!
Well done Ollie. There seem to be tons available. I bagged a couple of tickets too though bathlet 1 is on holiday and bathlet 2 isn’t particularly keen. It’s been a nice day out in the past. If the lottery for league games is reasonably generous, I won’t miss the arsenal box office experience.
Indeed bath.
Not confident about the lottery generosity, but we’ll see!
Dear All and mostly Ned for the wonderful piece on Boy Bastin..emigrating to Oz in 73 with the wonders of the magic Box, coverage becomes ever easier for us Down ‘ere. I arrived in N19 in Feb 50 and early on was fully engaged with The Arsenal from my Grandpop who was a regular at THoF in the 30s and my Dad & Uncles who were die-hards in the 50s and me starting to be a regular from 59-62 whence we departed to Scotland 62-65 then Kenya 65-67..Boy Bastin has been a constant and though obviously i was never near seeing him, he was a legend in Nicholay Road, Archway….i have my favourite AFC 11 & he is an automatic pick….My first days saw David Herd & Danny Clapton…just to say, favourite all -times for me…P. Simpson, P. Storey, G. Eastham, T. Adams, D.Bergkamp…ohh and Alan “Thunderboots Skirton”…we all loved him
There was an earlier mention of us quiet ones…well i pop in very occasionally but mostly am just one of who reads the wisdom of all…and its very informative and hugely fills the voids…keep up the splendid works of all…its been a long while since i was back, WBA 2017…and no likelihood of any further visits…The Arse are gaining new followers down here with the arrivals of our first 2 grandkids…I even know some Spuds supporters both here in Adelaide & in Melbourne, so its a joy…i was at Primary School in Highgate when that lot did their double..and being AFC was on the nose…Oh happy days now… and the Spuds Clock…well its always a pleasure when on occasion i lose a golfing bet (usually a bottle of local bubbly) to a Spud and overlay the label with the latest clock at 62y 2mths 24 days 22hrs…big club my A*se..Poor Ange Postocloglou (how do you spell it) local hero but what was he thinking?
Good stuff, MMTWP!
Tks Ollie..& so glad you got a tkt sorted…
Brain fade…how could i have missed John Radford?
Good to see you in this fine establishment, MMTWP. Great post. You are clearly a near contemporary of Uply, TTG and Clive at THOF with a family heritage to match! A glass of your preferred poison is on the bar. Sláinte. Don’t be a stranger!
MMTWP@40: Great memories of yet another Gooner family dynasty. Glad I was able to bring some of them to front of mind for a while. I am with you in having Bastin as one of the first names on the team sheet of an all-time Arsenal Xi.
Ollie@36: Well done. Deserved reward.
Thanks for posting, MMTWP. Your drink was a joy to read. 👍🏼
And equally so to read Uply’s @26.
And Clive’s@19
Gday Bath..& TKU for the welcome….i must have been a little ahead of you and with it being 2200 here in ADL, have gotten a few in already…my preferred poison is Cognac but very sadly my somewhat aged body doesn’t cope with it so well so have had to slink back to some Champagne – Piper Heidsieck that my son-in-law who returned to Melbourne on Sunday, left me…if thats what i have to imbibe going forward…no arguments!
I am in honoured company with Uply, TTG & Clive and many others, yourself included and because of the lateness (in SA term) a tax to the limited brain capacity, many others. I never had the pleasure to meet Dave but have immense respect for him establishing this very fine, sensible but passionate site . I don’t usually say much but i log on every day.
I have no reason to be a mystery so to explain MMTWP….in earlier days when i was a productive person in Civil Aviation, I got to be a Senior Manager…no brilliance just knew my stuff…and one day someone came up to me and told me & i think it was jokingly but with some respect (as they do down here) MMTWP…Mal, Mal, the Workers Pal….Now i am old and bitter & twisted and don’t recall being like that…but who knows? But having been treated ordinarily by my then seniors, thought there was a better way to do things…but please do not get me too wrong, the ex-PM i admire down here is John Howard…..that says it all..
As to your advice not to be a stranger, well i shall try not to be so…however after 50 years here, i have become a fan of West Coast Eagles…Australian Football…it took me many years..its a different game but when you get into it, its a great game…Except when your team is complete rubbish…my wife & my 2 (then) unmarried daughters all went to the 2018 Grand Final at the MCG (Melbourne Cricket Ground)…you wll have seen it on the box in The Ashes..well we won…but now its gone from the Winners to in 2023 being virtually relegated (they dont do relegation in Oz) to National League..ie Notts County, sadly down in the National…or did they get to Div 4 aka League 2?
Anyway enough dribbling on….I once again am immensely proud of what we did last season…like many i am now more enamoured to KSE than I was. They appear to have finally understood that its not baseball or American “Football” etcc..
Finally and just to prove i am not just an old fuddy from Downunder, i think i need to register my position on WAFC. If i am to be banned, so be it…However i have absolutely no interest in Women’s Football…I know its the way of the world but does it make it important? AFC promotes it, as all clubs do but for economic and to be seeing to be doing the right thing. Sport at the highest level, in my opinion should be elite..frankly its like basketball, i wouldn’t cross the road to watch it…however top level Netball is compelling…and as is swimming, athletics and many other sports but Football, Rugby and particularly Boxing, i feel is most inappropriate… Old fashion, yes…Mysoginist no….hope i’m not to be reported…but just saying….incidentally i think my wife (of 48 yrs) and our 2 daughters at 36 & 32 feel the same…Nadia Comanescau doing exquistie gymnastics or some Sheilas battering each other in a boxing ring???
I better fold the tent and go to bed
bests
In news from the academy, it appears that two M’Hands are better than one
I’ll get my coat
Heh, MMTWP @48, no ban here for sincerely held, inoffensive and well argued views. Although there are several enthusiasts amongst the regulars here, I have found it hard to get into women’s football though I was rather proud of Vic Akers’ trailblazing ladies and quite impressed by the England womens team’s triumph in the Euros. Ladies’ football is not really a sport that I watch. The frequency of ACLs also suggests that it is not a sport for women to play at the intensity expected nowadays. I understand girls’ enthusiasm for the game and have no problem with them playing it (unlike the SFA when I was a schoolboy) but I can’t get into it. However I simply cannot understand women’s desire to play rugby or to box and I couldn’t watch that at all. However there are a lot of things that seem popular these days to which I cannot relate.
On the other hand, I do find ladies’ tennis and gymnastics much better to watch than the male equivalents.
Ned, finally a chance to read and thank you for a really interesting and engaging piece. I obviously knew the name and era of Bastin but nothing else. You’ve brought it perfectly to life.
Good to see some old and new visitors in here too – thanks for the thoughts on my last post. And thanks to Clive and others for some great drinks.
UEFA caves again.
https://www.uefa.com/returntoplay/news/0283-186f6a2609f6-77d919fb7eff-1000–cfcb-renders-multi-club-ownership-decisions/
MMTWP really glad to know another veteran of our club. Don’t be a stranger – we’ll keep pouring the drinks.
bt8@53: And you are surprised?
Well in for the half-ton, bath. It is one of the advantages of maturing years that there are more and more activities to which one does not have to relate…
Trev@52: Much appreciated.
MMTWP
Great to make your acquaintance, call in regularly please
Interested that Declan Rice did not have his medical last week despite numerous spotting of him at Colney . Lots of disinformation around . And don’t West Ham come across as a tatty club to deal with ? I believe he is scheduled to have it on Friday
Uply @26
I’ve got my fingers crossed that if you moved back to London in ’57, that you may be the only other person in the bar who like me with my Dad, may have been at Highbury on Saturday 1st Feb in ’58, to see us take on the Busby Babes in what was to be unknown to us, the final time some of their best players graced the hallowed fields of an English Football stadium.
5 days later came the awful tragedy of the Munich air disaster.
Among those that died that day were players we had been watching only a few days earlier.
Roger Byrne, Eddie Colman, Tommy Taylor, Mark Jones, Tommy Taylor and the mercurial Duncan Edwards, all had graced the Highbury turf that day, and left their mark in a wonderful exhibition of attacking football.
They were 3 up at half time having played us off the park, but incredibly in front of an amazed packed house, we scored 3 quick goals to bring it back level, but Utd then went up another gear and scored 2 more cracking goals to lead 5-3 before we scored late on to make it 5-4 at the final whistle.
Dad always said it was a privilege to have been at Highbury that day to see such talented footballers on the cusp of what could have been a new dynasty for years to come at Utd.
I still have the programme from that game, and it is among many precious items relating to Arsenal that my Dad collected over the years.
I am sure some Fathers of our regular bar contributors would have been among the lucky ones that also got the chance to witness the last time the Busby Babes played together on English soil.
Clive@57: another remarkable story. Wonderful. We must not lose these memories.
Had Duncan Edwards lived, he would most likely have had the place in the 1966 England team occupied by Bobby Moore. How might that have changed history?
bt8@33: There appears to be an affinity with this image of Bastin used on the cover of the programme for Germany v England in Berlin in 1938, a match notorious for England’s players being ordered to give the Nazi salute before the game started.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/18/bb/8d/18bb8dcf245f82edbcfccc9c2e67dde0.jpg
This appears to be the original undoctored photograph.
https://www.shutterstock.com/editorial/image-editorial/cliff-bastin-arsenal-football-player-1920's–946843a
The is no information about the game, except that it is at Highbury. The opponents could be Grimsby Town. I don’t think it is Newcastle United, as they wore solid black socks in the 1930s, and it looks as if the other player has hooped socks, although it is difficult to tell. That would also rule out Sunderland (if the stripes were red). Sheffield Wednesday is another possibility. The stripes could be blue. I can’t think of any other First Division clubs then that wore striped shirts and black shorts.
Can I say that this post by Ned has prompted some of the most delightful drinks I’ve seen in ages. Our drinks are always good and worthwhile but this collection is exceptional.
Vintage Talisker in fact.
So good and engaging nobody noticed baff making a 6 straight out of the ground for the half-ton.
MMTWP – I’m in your and Bath’s camp regarding women’s sports.
Some are more suited to one sex than the other for a possible variety of reasons. I find women’s football difficult to watch because there is simply so much time and space to play in compared to the men. And I certainly wouldn’t watch women playing rugby or boxing.
While we’re being contentious 😉 I can’t stand women commentating on men’s football either.
Might go and hide for a while as I know there are a few regulars who will strongly disagree.
Trev@63: I am not sure that they are any worse than some of the male commentators although that may be a low bar.
I would say we could ban both men and women commentators but they are both most certainly better than androids, if not usually better than silence.
Further to my post @57 re Utd game,
In the programme notes, the Club addressed the concerns of many supporters who had been writing in and I quote,
” expressing numerous and varied opinions about the reasons for our disappointing displays, and quite a lot of them said that they felt it was a phase which could and would be overcome.”
“Quite a lot said that they had derived so much pleasure over the years in watching Arsenal, that this far outweighed the disappointments of the present time. ”
I don’t think todays supporters would be quite so polite. !!
The club were really struggling at the time, wallowing in mid table, and prior to winning away at Leicester in mid Jan, had lost 4 successive games conceding 13 goals and scoring only 2, and that included a humiliating 3rd round FA Cup defeat at Northampton. who were 19th in Division 3 !!
Little did the supporters know how much more dire it would get, culminating in the lowest home league attendance in our history in a 3 nil defeat against Leeds in May ’66, when only 4,500 people attended, including my Dad and I.
I was moaning about even going as we were so abjectly awful at the time, but Dad always said ” We support the Club through the good times and the bad ” but even he was almost speechless when the section we used to stand in next to the dugout which was usually pretty full, contained about a dozen lost souls when the game kicked off.
And on a separate comical note,
On the programme page for the Utd game with the 2 team line ups, they listed the colours each team would be wearing on the day, Shirts etc, and Dad could never explain to me why what we know today as Shorts, were listed as ” Knickers ” back in those days.
To a young lad like me, knickers were what girls wore, so I could never understand it.
Hopefully Ned’s Monks can come up with an explanation.
Linguistically and stylistically a short form of knickerbockers, the loose Dutch three quarters length trousers favoured as athletic wear by mid-19th century sportsmen in the US and UK. It was only in the UK that it also acquired the meaning of women’s underwear, for literary reasons mainly.
Ned @64, indeed, lots of the male commentators are awful but the worst thing about the women is that they generally try to imitate them and their cliches, and then soar up into that high register when they get excited which just really grates with me.
Trev @63 & 68…bold & brave…my pet hate…Sheila Farnsbarns commentating on the EPL…I turn the sound down…fortunately (so far) can’t recall any AFC games (that we get to hear Down Here) with Sheila Farnsbarns or similar screeching away…though i have to say some of the males get very carried away & almost Sarf American
On to other serious matters…all these players/coaches going to Saudi, are they all “on the wagon” or is there special dispensation if you fancy a G & T or a Double Diamond which when i was a young ‘un used to ‘Work wonders”…certainly wouldn’t have suited the pre-AW players eg the Romford Pele, Big Tone (before seeing “the light”)..and many others
Hello MMWTP, nice to see you in the bar 👋
And thanks Ned@67, always nice to learn something.
Good point, MMTWP @70. I suspect that a few of those who have signed for Saudi gold haven’t thought of that. There may be tears later and even the odd pink elephant.
On another point, Keenos has posted an excellent piece on She Wore (https://shewore.com) about the ‘delay’ on the completion of Declan Rice’s transfer. If I had anything to do with it, I would make the Spammers wait as long as possible after their trashy behaviour during the negotiations.
Thanks for the link Bath. Arseblog also takes the mickey this morning out of those with the collywobbles.
I blame the internet. It wasn’t like this when fanzines were photocopied pages stapled together. Like this blog. Oh wait …….
bath and C100: Two splendid links. Many thanks.
OM@71: Given how baggy shorts were in the 1930s, bloomers might have been a better choice of word than knickers.
If anyone has a programme from the 1950 Cup Final, when we played Liverpool, they will see our strip described as ‘Old Gold Shirts, White Knickers’, while Liverpool played in ‘White Shirts, Black Knickers’. The FA switched to ‘shorts’ the next season. Club programmes made the change across the course of the 1950s but Arsenal programmes persisted with ‘knickers’ almost to the end of the decade, switching to ‘shorts’ only at the start of the 1959-60 season. Players were still wearing ‘stockings’, however, not ‘socks’.
And didn’t Charlie George where a bra 10 years later.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Tottenham’s kit is described as “all coat and no knickers.”
But, knickerbockers – glorious 😉
SP @76. – made me laugh out loud remembering that old standard!
MMTWP@70 – the amount they’re being paid they will be hiring small jets to whizz off to the non-dry states post match I would have thought.
We’ve received $2.1 million from FIFA from its $209 million pot for clubs to release players for last year’s World Cup in Qatar. Sixth highest among PL clubs after City, the Bus Stop, the Red Mancs, the Neighbours and the Scousers.
The money for each player is pro-rated between any clubs that the player was registered with during the two-year qualifying rounds for the Finals. FIFA’s payout for the finalists’ squads totalled $394,215 for each player. So we got only $197,707 for William Saliba, as we had to share the $394,215 with Marseilles and Nice, but also picked up $32,851 for each of Guendouzi and Emmi Martinez.
Nicks a bock.
Trev@77: 👍
A lithograph of leading footballers of 1881 cutting a dash in their knickerbockers:
https://www.gettyimages.es/detail/fotografía-de-noticias/colour-lithograph-featuring-many-of-the-leading-fotografía-de-noticias/160415080
And if you were wondering about the shirts — hoops, plain colours and halves, but no stripes — a loom that could produce a bolt of cloth with vertical stripes was not developed until 1887. Before then, looms could only produce solid colours or stripes running horizontally.
Bloody hell Ned. The monks have dug that nugget of gold from somewhere!
Team v Nuremberg
C100 @82 – Ned’s Nuggets has a certain ring to it …..
A regular feature perhaps ……
C100@82: And you thought we just sat around all day weaving…
~@83: Cedric! How quickly we forget.
Trev@84: Don’t even think about it!
A loom that can make a bolt of cloth with vertical stripes: Hallelujah, a technological innovation that doesn’t require learning a new username and password.
Wasting no time in getting the Gabriel / Saliba partnership up and running for the season!
Good to see young William back.
After the Nurnberg match Arteta was quoted saying “time will tell” where Havertz will be best suited to play, and “We have to see how he adapts and obviously get to know each other and build relationships. Football is about that and time will tell where he fits in best.”
I could be wrong but think Arteta knows more than he’s saying.
@88 😃
Havertz played on the left although MA also said he’s not the same player as Xhaka and will bring different qualities. He’s really mastered telling the media nothing whatsoever.
I’d like to see Tomi, Zin and Ode playing as well in the next couple of weeks and have a more or less fully fit squad to go in August.
I agree, bt @ 88. Was making myself the same reflection this morning: I don’t think you invest that sort of money in a player without having some pretty clear ideas about where you want to play him.
I am sorted another way, but unsucessful for Forest red ballot. It’s going to be mostly a long season of not attending games I suspect. Funny how the email is completely different from the one I got for Silvers. More direct and not even pretending to be nice. Not sure if it’s because they got pelters from Silvers after the first ballot, or if it’s simply that they’ve got so many red members they feel they don’t even have to pretend to care.
bt8, OM & Ollie: I am not sure Arteta was dissembling about Havertz. I suspect he read more nuance into the question than the questioner had in mind and gave an appropriately nuanced answer whose brevity made it sound gnomic.
Ned, Arteta is a master at adding truths that are only parenthetically related to the gist of the question he is addressing. We know he likes players who are flexible enough to play in several positions, but as Ollie says, that much money must be primarily intended for one purpose. Xhaka no longer being with us must be the elephant in (or not in) the room. I could be wrong.
Happy Bastille Day, Ollie. And the same to all the other French ‘holiques, if there are any. 🍷
Cheers bt8!
Wood you believe it? Timber is announced as coming on board to ply his trade at The Arsenal. Welcome Jurrien!
We are very strong on the right now, with William, Tomi, Benjamin and Jurrien.
However I would still tell Besiktas to take a hike at 2.5m for Pensacola Rob.
Very good pun, Matt at 96.
Rice next on the menu. Puntastic.
And we might have a centurion here for the first time in a while.
There are a few Saturdays without a Eurostar after 6pm (looks like 19/26 august and 3/9). That’s putting a spanner in the works for Fulham.
*kicks ball in anger*
Ollie @90, I can’t go to the opening game of the season. Do you want to take my ticket?
Thanks a million, CER, but as my opening words implied, I am sorted (the ‘another way’ meant I had a fallback plan through another mate who can’t go).
Congrats on the ton.
Accidental maiden century!
No problem, Ollie. At least you’ll be there!
Well in for the ton, CER. May it be the first of many.
In sartorial news, Saliba is taking the 2 shirt, vacant since Hector’s departure, with Timber getting Saliba’s old 12. Balogun has been re-allocated 26, if there is anything to be read into that. Trusty is pencilled in for 32; whether or not he gets to wear it probably depends on Capitola Rob’s future. The lowest number available for Rice would be 22 (16 if Rob departs). Rice always wore 41 at West Ham, and he may want to stick with that. I’ll leave the sticky rice pun to OM.
Ned what other players have been directly transferred from West Ham to Arsenal?
C 100@105: The answer may be none. Certainly not in the Premier League era. Before that, records get increasingly sketchy, but nothing has turned up in what there is. The closest may be Archie Macaulay, who played in the late 40s, but he had a season at Brentford in between. George Male, the England and Arsenal right back in the 1930s, was born in West Ham, but never played for them though he had a trial. Plenty of Arsenal players off-loaded in the opposite direction at the end of their careers, of course.
It seems like it wasn’t too long ago that Arsenal wasn’t seen as a top destination for top players. But with Timber and Rice saying they only wanted to go to Arsenal and Mbappe saying if he were to go to the Premier League it would be to Arsenal, the tides have changed. Credit to Arteta and Edu for creating a project that looks attractive to outsiders.
Arsenal have spent a lot of money the past couple of years, but they have to some extent future proofed the team for the next few years. I wonder if the management looked at the acceleration in transfer fees, combined with the emergence of Saudi Arabia throwing money everywhere, and recognized now is the time to invest.
Speaking of women’s football in a more positive way, this package sounds like a good introduction for some of the doubters.
I’m just gonna leave this here: https://twitter.com/Craig_Foster/status/1678927944033669121?t=nGbmu0QFlJh_DnE7zbp9og&s=19
Ned at 106. Many thanks for the effort. If you and the monks couldn’t find them, no-one can.
C100 and Ned
I perused the entire sales history of West Ham FC because I couldn’t remember a purchase from them and there is none.
On the other hand we’ve loaned them many – eg Almunia , Jenkinson , Chamakh and Shabaan and among others sold them a lot of players usually over the hill strikers –
Radford, Wright, Suker , Hartson, Perez , Ljungberg , Winterburn, Robson etc etc .
Very few of these deals worked out well for them . They are to us what we are to Chelsea ! Let’s hope Havertz changes that dynamic
Timber, Rice. Let the punfest begin. Trev, all yours…
Rice, Rice baby
https://www.arsenal.com/
TTG @111, your penultimate sentence is a relatively recent and hopefully now terminated state of affairs. Whilst the Spammers have always been an impoverished, generally classless, yoyo club with an occasional flicker of cup success, they have always been a far smaller club than Arsenal and always will be. A relationship with the Chavs that involved accepting their cast-offs began with the arrival of Abramovich’s filthy lucre, the exchange of the execrable Gallas for the equally execrable Cole and hopefully ended with Willian. I don’t think we will be in that kind of relationship with th Bus Stop again. This summer we took their best player over the last three seasons – different gravy, as the Guvna would have said. I hope he achieves more with the Arsenal – so much more that it eclipses his trophy haul at the Bus Stop.
Bath
I phrased my comment badly.
I was meaning in relation to buying players. Chelsea unload their dross on us ( harsh on Jorginho and hopefully Havertz ) . In terms of class and history Chelsea are not in our league
🍚🍚🍚
🎉🎉🎉
🥂🥂🥂
💪🏼💪🏼💪🏼
Go win, Declan!
Nice links bt8 @108 and cent @110. Points well made.
Have some 🍚
Cent@109: The AI in that video ad is scary.
Declan is getting the no 41 shirt, so Sticky Rice, it is, even though that makes him sound like a PG Wodehouse character.
Good news to start the day! Come on down Declan!
The rice is right.
OM@119: Puntastic! Rice to know you. To know you rice.
Oh Yes! Oh Yes!
RiCiCLES is twice as nice!
https://www.hatads.org.uk/catalogue/record/8346809b-5187-489f-b056-47800ffbfd63
Just one youngster in the 29-strong US tour party, Cozier-Duberry. No Walters, Bandeira or any of the others who were in Germany. ESR and Partey will be joining the party next week. ESR’s delay is understandable, given his U21 Euros participation, but why Partey’s?
Ned,
An interesting American-bound squad . The absence of the younger lads is not too surprising and maybe Walters has been sacrificed because we are taking Trusty who I hear good things of . As you say ESR is taking a break after his exertions but tye reason for Partey being delayed is unclear and hopefully not too sinister . Cozier- Duberry is a real talent but you have to wonder what Runarsson is doing on that plane. Having seen a bit of Hein he might not be travelling if Turner was available!
It looks a glamorous trip and I hope we emerge positively from it
TTG@123: You are right that it is not surprising that few youngsters are travelling Stateside. That is one consequence of adding depth to the senior squad. I am fine with that.
Arteta would have run his rule over Walters, Nwaneri, Lewis-Skelly, Patino and M’Hand during the Germany trip. As the US opponents include ManU and Barca, they probably wouldn’t have got much playing time.
Runarsson must be fifth-choice keeper. I take Okonkwo’s absence, rather than replacing Turner, as a sign that he is off on loan again or about to be sold. I suspect we can’t give Runarsson away. Cedric and Lokonga are also absent from the tour party; Sami is claiming that a slight injury is keeping him at home, a statement into which something might be read, although I have no idea what.
Nice interview on Eurosport with Arsene who was at the Tour de France.
He is confident Arsenal will win the league this season.
OM@24 AWOL, I regret to admit.
>>>>>>>